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SteinHakkeToillat
Ble Medlem: 24 Nov 2004
Innlegg: 267
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 Nixon eller Bush?
Hvem var egentlig den amerikanske presidenten som gjorde størst feil?
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 Skrevet: Lør 11 Des 2004, 12:48 |
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Glahn
Mors Lille Ole
Ble Medlem: 10 Mar 2003
Innlegg: 7331
Bosted: Trondheim
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Umulig å si på nåværende tidspunkt, fordi vi ikke har oversikt over hva slags følger Bush' handlinger får.
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_________________
Jeg skal kun få leve i ordene mine.
De som leser meg vil ikke røre meg.
Skrevet: Lør 11 Des 2004, 18:35 |
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Jos
SteinHakkeToillat
Ble Medlem: 29 Jun 2004
Innlegg: 306
Bosted: Hamar
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watergate vs. brudd på folkeretten (det vi kommer til å huske for ettertiden?)
Vietnam vs. Irak (kriger med amerikanske tap)
9/11 vs. Cubakrisa/kald krig (situasjoner som farget embedet)
det er jo noe om historien alltid gjentar seg, men Nixon arvet jo et par kriger pluss den overhengende kalde krigen. Diplomatisk så ligger han sjumilssteg foran Bush. Og Henry A. Kissinger vant Nobels fredspris som følge av dette.
Men vil jo alltid bli husket for Watergate, selv om han ble "pardoned" av sin etterfølger Ford.
Bush opplevde 9/11 mens han selv satt i embetet og fikk ett voldsomt press på å gjøre noe med dette. Men det å starte krig på indisier, og i tillegg å bryte diverse menneskeretter i selve krigssitausjonen, vil for alltid bli husket som noe han gjorde.
Personlg syns eg at det Truman gjorde, nemlig å slippe atombombene over Hiroshima og Nagasaki sannsynligvis er det verste en amerikansk president noensinne har gjort, men han ble nå sittende sju år til.
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Skrevet: Søn 12 Des 2004, 17:13 |
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QIQrrr
Hurrafantastisk
Ble Medlem: 05 Jan 2004
Innlegg: 1314
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| Jos skrev: | | Personlg syns eg at det Truman gjorde, nemlig å slippe atombombene over Hiroshima og Nagasaki sannsynligvis er det verste en amerikansk president noensinne har gjort, men han ble nå sittende sju år til. |
Å slippe atombombene var intet mindre enn en nødvendighet som sparte mange menneskeliv.
Personlig synes jeg Jimmy Carter bidro mest til verdens elendighet og symptomatisk føyer han seg pent inn i rekken av fredsprisvinnere...sammen med terrorister som eksempelvis Arafat. Fred er ikke målet, men frihet!
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_________________
Det finnes ingen reelle motsetninger i denne verden forutsatt at man beskjeftiger seg med fakta og den observerbare virkelighet.
Skrevet: Søn 12 Des 2004, 17:58 |
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metaxa
SteinHakkeToillat
Ble Medlem: 26 Apr 2003
Innlegg: 342
Bosted: Oslo
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Så 140.000 sivile i Hiroshima og 70.000 sivile i Nagasaki drept av to atom-bomber var et godt svar på Japans bombing av en amerikansk militærbase på den amerikanske kolonien Hawaii (som forøvrig drepte omlag 1000 amerikanske soldater)?
Slik så den forøvrig ut, den 4 tonn tunge bomben ut med en effekt lik flere tusen tonn TNT.
| Harry Truman, 6. august 1945 skrev: |
The harnessing of the basic power of the universe. The force from which the sun draws its power has been used against those who brought war to the Far East. We have spent $2,000,000,000 (about $500,000,000) on the greatest gamble in history, and we have won.
With this bomb we have now added a new and revolutionary increase in destruction to supplement the growing power of our armed forces. In their present form these bombs are now in production and even more powerful forms are in development.
Before 1939 it was the accepted belief of scientists that it was theoretically possible to release atomic energy, but none knew any practical method of doing it. By 1942 however, we knew the Germans were working feverishly to find a way to add atomic energy to other engines of war with which they hoped to enslave the world, but they failed. We may be grateful to Providence that the Germans got VI's and V2's and in limited quantities, and even more grateful that they did not get the atomic bomb at all.
The battle of the laboratories held fateful risks for us as well as the battles of the air, land and sea and we have now won the battle of the laboratories as we have won other battles. Before Pearl Harbour, scientific knowledge useful in war was pooled between the United States and Britain and many priceless.helps to our victories have come from the arrangement. Under that general policy, research on the atomic bomb was begun. With American and British scientists working together, we entered the race of discovery against the Germans.
We are now prepared to obliterate more rapidly and completely every productive enterprise the Japanese have above ground in any city. We shall destroy their docks, their factories and their communications. Let there be no mistake, we shall completely destroy Japan's power to make war.
It was in spare the Japanese people from utter destruction that the ultimatum of July 26 was issued from Potsdam. Their leaders promptly rejected that ultimatum. If they do not now accept our terms they may expect a rain of run from the air the like of which has never been seen on this earth. Behind this air attack will follow sea and land forces in such numbers and power as they have not yet seen and with a fighting skill of which they have already become well aware.
Although workers at the sites have been making the materials to be used in producing the greatest destructive force in history, they have not themselves been in danger beyond that of many other occupations for the utmost care has been take for their safety. The fact that we can release atomic energy ushers in a new era on man's understanding of nature's forces. I shall recommend the Congress of the United States to consider promptly establishment of an appropriate Commission to control the production and use of atomic power within the United States. I shall give further consideration and make a further recommendation to Congress as to how atomic power can become a powerful and forceful influence towards the maintenance of world peace.
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| Dr John Hershey, Hiroshima 1946 skrev: |
Dr. Sasaki and his colleagues at the Red Cross Hospital watched the unprecedented disease unfold and at last evolved a theory about its nature. It had, they decided, three stages. The first stage had been all over before the doctors even knew they were dealing with a new sickness; it was the direct reaction to the bombardment of the body, at the moment when the bomb went off, by neutrons, beta particles, and gamma rays. The apparently uninjured people who had died so mysteriously in the first few hours or days had succumbed in this first stage. It killed ninety-five per cent of the people within a half-mile of the center, and many thousands who were farther away. The doctors realized in retrospect that even though most of these dead had also suffered from burns and blast effects, they had absorbed enough radiation to kill them. The rays simply destroyed body cells– caused their nuclei to degenerate and broke their walls. Many people who did not die right away came down with nausea, headache, diarrhea, malaise, and fever, which lasted several days. Doctors could not be certain whether some of these symptoms were the result of radiation or nervous shock. The second stage set in ten or fifteen days after the bombing. Its first symptom was falling hair. Diarrhea and fever, which in some cases went as high as 106, came next. Twenty-five to thirty days after the explosion, blood disorders appeared: gums bled, the white-blood-cell count dropped sharply, and petechiae [eruptions] appeared on the skin and mucous membranes. The drop in the number of white blood corpuscles reduced the patient's capacity to resist infection, so open wounds were unusually slow in healing and many of the sick developed sore throats and mouths. The two key symptoms, on which the doctors came to base their prognosis, were fever and the lowered white-corpuscle count. If fever remained steady and high, the patient's chances for survival were poor. The white count almost always dropped below four thousand; a patient whose count fell below one thousand had little hope of living. Toward the end of the second stage, if the patient survived, anemia, or a drop in the red blood count, also set in. The third stage was the reaction that came when the body struggled to compensate for its ills–when, for instance, the white count not only returned to normal but increased to much higher than normal levels. In this stage, many patients died of complications, such as infections in the chest cavity. Most burns healed with deep layers of pink, rubbery scar tissue, known as keloid tumors. The duration of the disease varied, depending on the patient's constitution and the amount of radiation he had received. Some victims recovered in a week; with others the disease dragged on for months.
As the symptoms revealed themselves, it became clear that many of them resembled the effects of overdoses of X-ray, and the doctors based their therapy on that likeness. They gave victims liver extract, blood transfusions, and vitamins, especially Bl. The shortage of supplies and instruments hampered them. Allied doctors who came in after the surrender found plasma and penicillin very effective. Since the blood disorders were, in the long run, the predominant factor in the disease, some of the Japanese doctors evolved a theory as to the seat of the delayed sickness. They thought that perhaps gamma rays, entering the body at the time of the explosion, made the phosphorus in the victims' bones radioactive, and that they in turn emitted beta particles, which, though they could not penetrate far through flesh, could enter the bone marrow, where blood is manufactured, and gradually tear it down. Whatever its source, the disease had some baffling quirks. Not all the patients exhibited all the main symptoms. People who suffered flash burns were protected, to a considerable extent, from radiation sickness. Those who had lain quietly for days or even hours after the bombing were much less liable to get sick than those who had been active. Gray hair seldom fell out. And, as if nature were protecting man against his own ingenuity, the reproductive processes were affected for a time; men became sterile, women had miscarriages, menstruation stopped.
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Du kan jo gjerne prøve å komme med argumenter for din påstand om at Carter bragte mer elendighet enn dette til verden, men du er jo som kjent ikke kjent for å underbygge dine påstander med argumenter, så overrasket blir jeg ikke om de uteblir.
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_________________
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously (Noam Chomsky)
Skrevet: Man 13 Des 2004, 06:26 |
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fungi
SteinHakkeToillat
Ble Medlem: 24 Nov 2004
Innlegg: 267
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Dere har selvfølgelig fått med dere Nixons leketøy med napalm i, som han sendte til Vietnam? Man må heller ikke glemme at det faktisk er funnet brev fra/til Churchill om "ulykken" på pearl harbor, så nesten alt tyder faktisk på at det var han som satte det i gang. Og, til sist, vi må huske på at da Bush sendte fly til Afghanistan for å drepe og bombe massevis av folk, så fikk han innvilget 2 minnutts stillhet for de TO amerikanske flyverne som døde under angrepet.
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Skrevet: Man 13 Des 2004, 14:43 |
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Glahn
Mors Lille Ole
Ble Medlem: 10 Mar 2003
Innlegg: 7331
Bosted: Trondheim
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| fungi skrev: | | Man må heller ikke glemme at det faktisk er funnet brev fra/til Churchill om "ulykken" på pearl harbor, så nesten alt tyder faktisk på at det var han som satte det i gang |
Les litt krigshistorie og bruk sunn fornuft og kildekritikk.
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_________________
Jeg skal kun få leve i ordene mine.
De som leser meg vil ikke røre meg.
Skrevet: Man 13 Des 2004, 15:34 |
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Mr_Pin
OoaHelaNatten
Ble Medlem: 22 Mai 2004
Innlegg: 529
Bosted: Trondheim
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Personlig holder jeg kanskje en knapp på Reagan og markedsliberalismen han og Tatcher frontet på 80 tallet.
(Redigert 10/1- 05) Eller, nei det er og blir Clinton. Det stilltiende akseptet av folkemordet på Øst Timor. Den komplett misslykkede krigen i Kosovo. Sanksjonene mot og bombingen av Irak. Når utenriksministern (Albright) mener at 500 000 døde barn var en pris det var verdt å betale vet man at noe er galt.
Den store ironien er at enkelte virker å oppfatte Clinton som en skikkelig kar, og at han huskes for meningsløse sex eskapader og ikke jævelskapen han gjorde.
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_________________
Kunnskap er ikke makt, korrekt anvendelse av kunnskap er makt.
Skrevet: Tor 16 Des 2004, 00:33 |
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