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hüter'n

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alle har fått med seg det bøndene mot ulvene opplegget. men dere bor ikke i en bonde-og-ulverfaenskapkommune...stakkrs ulven, bli utsatt for de slemme bøndene. uansett synes jeg østfoldbønder er konservative potetsekker. og hvis noen i klassen min leser dette nå får jeg høre det på skolen. bondefaenskap. utrydd bønder, la ulven leve...

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InnleggSkrevet: Fre 23 Apr 2004, 23:27
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wertoi

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Og så bruker de gjerne unnskyldinger som 'må opprettholde stabilitet i naturen'. Eier vi jorda? Det blir bare fler og fler mennesker, men blir de drept fordi det er for mange av dem?

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InnleggSkrevet: Lør 24 Apr 2004, 09:47
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Glahn

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Det er fryktelig mange mennesker i Norge som synes vi bør ha en ulvestamme som en del av vår naturlige fauna. Men veldig få av dem vil ha ulven mindre enn 10 km unna der de selv bor.

Og det sier egentlig det meste. Det er faktisk ikke så morsomt å skulle ha ulv eller bjørn rekende rundt husveggene, men så lenge de bare holder seg pent og pyntelig på avstand er det greit at de finnes. Problemet er bare at de holder seg ikke på avstand - de vandrer dit de selv vil.

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InnleggSkrevet: Lør 24 Apr 2004, 10:59
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songbird

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Jeg bor midt i østfold, og har slett ikke noe imot ulver. Synes det bare er fint at de er her jeg...de har tross alt like mye rett til å være jher som oss.
Det er bare så forbaska irriterende å høre på alle de dustete rakkestadbøndene som klager og syter...
Pass bedre på sauene deres, så går det nok så fint så...

dakar fine ulven...

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InnleggSkrevet: Lør 24 Apr 2004, 11:07
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Frihetsfisken

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Hvilken verdi har ulver for mennesket? Ingen. Det finnes absolutt intet grunnlag for å beskytte ulven mot utryddelse.

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InnleggSkrevet: Lør 24 Apr 2004, 11:15
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songbird

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Frihetsfisken skrev:
Hvilken verdi har ulver for mennesket? Ingen. Det finnes absolutt intet grunnlag for å beskytte ulven mot utryddelse.


jeg håper virkelig ikke du mente det seriøst...

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InnleggSkrevet: Lør 24 Apr 2004, 11:16
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Frihetsfisken

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songbird skrev:
jeg håper virkelig ikke du mente det seriøst...

Hvorfor ikke? Hvorfor skal vi bruke ressurser på å verne en art som bare er til skade for oss?

Dersom Tyrannusaurus Rex fortsatt hadde eksistert, skulle vi da ha vernet denne art, selv om den var en trussel mot oss?

Naturen har ingen verdi i seg selv. Den har kun verdi for mennesket. Når vi skal vurdere hvorvidt ulven som art skal opprettholdes, er det følgelig utfra menneskets interesser dette skal avgjøres. Jeg kan ikke se noen som helst grunn til å verne ulven som art.

(Men selvsagt, dersom du ønsker å ta noen ulver med hjem og beskytte dem, må du gjerne gjøre det.)

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InnleggSkrevet: Lør 24 Apr 2004, 11:24
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songbird

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Har det noen gang fallt deg inn at verden ikke eksisterer kun for menneskene?
Eller at solsystemet ikke snurrer rundt oss?

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InnleggSkrevet: Lør 24 Apr 2004, 11:28
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Frihetsfisken

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songbird skrev:
Har det noen gang fallt deg inn at verden ikke eksisterer kun for menneskene?

Nei.

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InnleggSkrevet: Lør 24 Apr 2004, 11:52
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hüter'n

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meget for å utrydde bønder og frihetsfisker. tittan, gidder du ta i et tak?

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InnleggSkrevet: Lør 24 Apr 2004, 13:23
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Tittan

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Hmm.. jeg er ikke for utrydding av noe jeg. Så vidt jeg vet finnes det kun en frihetsfisk, og den må vi ta vare på... Bønder er vel også snart utrydningstruet i Norge, så hmmm...

ps, jeg er torturist i samfunnet vårt, ikke bøddel Wink

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InnleggSkrevet: Lør 24 Apr 2004, 14:29
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QIQrrr

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Ulven tilfører intet annet enn et artsinnslag i faunaen, det spiller ingen praktisk rolle hvorvidt vi tar vare på dette dyret eller ikke...

...selv er jeg en misantropisk Steppeulv Rolling Eyes

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InnleggSkrevet: Lør 24 Apr 2004, 14:46
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haakoo

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Jeg mener vi skal ha ulv i norge, det er en naturlig del av faunaen. Jeg bor ikke et sted hvor det finnes ulv til vanlig, men vi har mer enn nok gaupe i østmarka. Greit nok at ingen ser på gaupe som farlig for menneske, men ingen her greier heller å dra frem eksempler på at ulv har gått til angrep på mennesker de siste hundre årene. Jeg husker ikke helt når det siste registrerte tilfellet av angrep på mennesker av ulv var i europa, men jeg tror det er rundt 200 år siden.....

Bøndenes argumenter med at ulven tar så masse sau er jo bare sprøyt. Ulven tar kun noen få prosent av den sauen som forsvinner på beite hvert år. Den verste synderen er faktisk jerven, så kommer vel bjørnen.

Det finnes ingen grunner til å utrydde ulven, og det er da ingen som tvinger folk til å bo i områder med ulv. Selv skulle jeg ønske jeg bodde et sted med mer 'natur' utenfor døra. Det er rådyr innom her hver høst/vinter, det har vært ælj i hagen vår. Det har tilogmed vært registrert gaupe nærmere sentrum enn her jeg bor, men ingen skriker ut om at vi må drepe all æljen eller alle gaupene....

Ælj er da farligere enn ulv, hvert fall skadet flere mennesker de siste 100 årene enn ulven har greid...

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InnleggSkrevet: Lør 24 Apr 2004, 23:40
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Glahn

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Frihetsfisken skrev:
songbird skrev:
Har det noen gang fallt deg inn at verden ikke eksisterer kun for menneskene?

Nei.


Hvorfor er jeg ikke overrasket over det svaret..? Rolling Eyes

Forøvrig finnes det jo mennesker som er helt fascinert av ulver, så ulven som art har sikkert en slags nytte for endel mennesker i dette landet. Forøvrig finnes det mange dyrearter her i landet som gjør minst like mye skade som ulven, så jeg ser ikke på akkurat det som så viktig. Er mer opptatt av at folk skal slippe å ha noe som tross alt er et rovdyr vandrende kloss oppi boligstrøket de bor i.

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InnleggSkrevet: Lør 24 Apr 2004, 23:41
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haakoo

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Frihetsfisken skrev:
songbird skrev:
Har det noen gang fallt deg inn at verden ikke eksisterer kun for menneskene?

Nei.


Har du noen gang sett et levende dyr, utenfor dyreparker?

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InnleggSkrevet: Lør 24 Apr 2004, 23:42
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Frihetsfisken

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spiralis skrev:
Jeg mener vi skal ha ulv i norge, det er en naturlig del av faunaen.

Og hva så?

Dere overser det essensielle spørsmålet i denne debatt, hvilket er: Med hvilken rett vil dere nekte meg å skyte ulv?

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InnleggSkrevet: Søn 25 Apr 2004, 10:10
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Frihetsfisken

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Glahn skrev:
Forøvrig finnes det jo mennesker som er helt fascinert av ulver, så ulven som art har sikkert en slags nytte for endel mennesker i dette landet.

Ja, men det er intet grunnlag for å forby meg å skute ulv. Dersom du ønsker å verne ulven, kan du gå ut i skogen og ta med deg ulvene, for så å beskytte dem mot den som prøver å skyte dem.

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InnleggSkrevet: Søn 25 Apr 2004, 10:13
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Frihetsfisken

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spiralis skrev:
Har du noen gang sett et levende dyr, utenfor dyreparker?

Ja. Hvorfor er det relevant?

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InnleggSkrevet: Søn 25 Apr 2004, 10:13
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Frihetsfisken

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Forøvrig vil jeg bare påpeke at jeg ikke er for eller imot utrydding av ulv.

Jeg er derimot imot et forbud mot å skyte ulv. Dyr har ikke rettigheter.

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InnleggSkrevet: Søn 25 Apr 2004, 10:14
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wertoi

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Frihetsfisken skrev:
spiralis skrev:
Jeg mener vi skal ha ulv i norge, det er en naturlig del av faunaen.

Og hva så?

Dere overser det essensielle spørsmålet i denne debatt, hvilket er: Med hvilken rett vil dere nekte meg å skyte ulv?


Hadde ulven vært i stand til å nekte deg det, hadde den gjort det. Det er ikke opp til oss å nekte deg det, det er ulvens liv det er snakk om. Den har nøyaktig like stor rett til å leve som deg.

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InnleggSkrevet: Søn 25 Apr 2004, 10:18
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