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ForumoversiktenHjernefĂždePolitikk & Religion
VÄpen i USA vs Norge
Start Nytt Tema   Svar pć Tema Vis Forrige TemaVis Neste Tema
Side 1 av 1 [15 Posts]  
Av Innlegg
Optimist

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Asfrith skrev:
Glahn skrev:
Jeg ville vÊrt langt mer bekymra for Ä bli skutt av en eller annen idiot av en smÄkriminell med skytevÄpen, enn bekymra for terrorisme.


What he said.

Likevel, det finnes flere skytevÄpen per person i Norge enn i USA, sÄ jeg vet ikke, jeg...


Shocked Man lÊrer stadig nye ting man burde visst fra fÞr. f.eks lÊrte jeg nylig at norge er verdens fjerde stÞrste eksportÞr av vÄpen.

Nordmenn bruker heldigvis ikke skytevÄpna sÄ ofte som amerikanere Razz

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InnleggSkrevet: Tir 02 Jan 2007, 17:12
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Glahn

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Det finnes kanskje flere vÄpen her, men folk flest gÄr ikke rundt omkring med dem pÄ byen og i bygda sÄnn til hverdags. I USA jaktes det like mye pÄ folk som vi her jakter pÄ elg og rÄdyr...

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InnleggSkrevet: Tir 02 Jan 2007, 18:30
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haakoo

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Asfrith skrev:
Likevel, det finnes flere skytevÄpen per person i Norge enn i USA, sÄ jeg vet ikke, jeg...


Hvor har du det fra? Sist jeg hĂžrte noe tilsvarende var USA soleklar vinner. Men begge deler kan vĂŠre myter.

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InnleggSkrevet: Tir 02 Jan 2007, 22:53
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Asfrith

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haakoo skrev:
Asfrith skrev:
Likevel, det finnes flere skytevÄpen per person i Norge enn i USA, sÄ jeg vet ikke, jeg...


Hvor har du det fra? Sist jeg hĂžrte noe tilsvarende var USA soleklar vinner. Men begge deler kan vĂŠre myter.


Fra min bror, som er lÞytnant i Forsvaret med erfaring fra informasjonsinnhenting. Han sier at USA ikke engang er pÄ fÞrsteplass i Nord-Amerika, Canada ligger ogsÄ foran. Forskjellen mellom disse landene er, som har blitt nevnt tidligere, viljen til Ä BRUKE vÄpnene.

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InnleggSkrevet: Tir 02 Jan 2007, 23:04
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Glahn

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Ikke bare bruke vÄpnene, men hva man bruker dem til, og hva slags vÄpen man bruker. Jeg vil tro at de fleste vÄpen i Norge som er i privat eie (ikke forsvaret) er jaktvÄpen. I USA er det nok langt mer (halv)automatiske vÄpen ute og gÄr, som i bunn og grunn er laget for Ä drepe mennesker.

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InnleggSkrevet: Tir 02 Jan 2007, 23:15
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haakoo

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Jeg skilte ut trÄden, siden den var pÄ vei langt bort fra tema.


Jeg fant ikke noe statistikk for norge nÄ kjapt, men jeg fant for USA.

http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

Den er fra mai '97 og sier at det er nok vÄpen i privateie i USA til Ä gi alle voksne et hver. Ca 25% av alle voksne hadde vÄpen, og 74% av alle som hadde vÄpen hadde mer enn ett.


Skal se om jeg finner noe tilsvarende for norge i morgen, men jeg er ikke overbevist om at det finnes over 4.5milion vÄpen i privateie i norge.

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InnleggSkrevet: Ons 03 Jan 2007, 01:31
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Asfrith

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haakoo skrev:
Jeg skilte ut trÄden, siden den var pÄ vei langt bort fra tema.


Jeg fant ikke noe statistikk for norge nÄ kjapt, men jeg fant for USA.

http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

Den er fra mai '97 og sier at det er nok vÄpen i privateie i USA til Ä gi alle voksne et hver. Ca 25% av alle voksne hadde vÄpen, og 74% av alle som hadde vÄpen hadde mer enn ett.


Skal se om jeg finner noe tilsvarende for norge i morgen, men jeg er ikke overbevist om at det finnes over 4.5milion vÄpen i privateie i norge.


Det har du nok rett i, sÄ mange vÄpen er det nok ikke i privateie i Norge. Men det mÄ sies, sÄ mange voksne i Norge er det heller ikke...

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InnleggSkrevet: Ons 03 Jan 2007, 09:42
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toth42

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Det er verdt Ä nevne forskjellen pÄ hagler/rifler og uzier/9mm'ere og da..
De aller, aller fleste privatvÄpen i Norge mÄ jo vÊre gevÊrer, da man mÄ vÊre medlem av og utÞver i pistolklubb for Ä fÄ kjÞpe pistol. I USA trenger man vel bare vente en uke..

Og en pistol kan man ha pÄ innerlomma, det er vanskelig med ei hagle..

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InnleggSkrevet: Ons 03 Jan 2007, 10:01
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haakoo

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Mer info:

http://pub.tv2.no/nettavisen/innenriks/article544110.ece

Norge ligger bak USA i fĂžlge den der, sammen med finland og sveits (andre nasjoner med lange jakttradisjoner).



http://www.vgb.no/341/perma/123024 Har litt synsing om antall uregistrerte vÄpen.


SĂ„ har vel norge rundt 3.5milioner "voksne". SĂ„ vi er nok et godt stykke bak USA.

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InnleggSkrevet: Ons 03 Jan 2007, 13:53
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Glahn

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Jeg for min del lurer pÄ hvorfor folka der borte har sÄ stor trang til Ä skyte hverandre, for nÄr du ser pÄ typen vÄpen mange anskaffer, sÄ er det Äpenbart at det ikke er jakt pÄ dyr i skogen de skal pÄ.

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InnleggSkrevet: Tor 04 Jan 2007, 12:32
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haakoo

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De skal forsvare seg selv! Razz

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InnleggSkrevet: Tor 04 Jan 2007, 14:34
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Glahn

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Men hvem skal da forsvare dem mot seg selv, og med hva? Wink

Da jeg var I USA for mange herrens Är siden og opplevde Ä se vÊpna politi vandre omkring i hverdagen, sÄ fÞlte jeg meg ikke akkurat tryggere av den grunn. MÄ vÊre noen grundig store forskjeller i tankegang ute og gÄr her, som gjÞr at vÄpenstatistikkene blir som de blir.

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InnleggSkrevet: Tor 04 Jan 2007, 16:41
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Asfrith

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Jepp, det fÄr'n si. En setning fra en av Michael Moore-filmene har satt seg fast i hjernen min. En eller annen dame (tror hun var fra NRF) ble intervjuet.

"If your house is broken into when you're home, what do you do? You call the cops. And why? Because they have guns!"

Ja, jeg ville ringt til politiet, men ikke fordi de har vÄpen! Jeg ville ringt dem fordi de vet hvordan de skal hanskes med en sÄnn situasjon...

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InnleggSkrevet: Tor 04 Jan 2007, 17:48
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SparrowN

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At det i USA blir drept langt fler med hÄndvÄpen enn i noe annet land har med eksakt det samme som skaper rasisme - frykt for det fremmede. Ja, og kombinert med liberale vÄpenlover og en god porsjon hjelp fra media, selvfÞlgelig.

USA er tuftet pÄ en mentalitet om at enhver er sin egen lykkes smed, noe som betyr at alle er i konstant konkurranse med hverandre. En konkurrent er en fiende. Ergo stÄr en alene med masse fiender rundt en som kan f.eks. stjele ens jobb (innvadrerne-tar-jobba-vÄrses-argumentet virker mer hyppig brukt over der enn her, har jeg inntrykk av).
Samtidig er det mulig Ä fÄ et hĚndvÄpen i USA i lÞpet av en uke, uten mer enn en mental sjekk (dvs, om du har en diagnose eller har vÊrt i kontakt med en mentalinstitusjon). Dette kan feil mennesker benytte seg av og dette vet den gjevne amerikaner veldig godt.
Samtidig blir inntrykket av at amerika er et farlig sted Ä bo, stadig dyttet pÄ dem via media. Vold gir svakere reaksjoner blandt amerikanske tv-seere enn nakenhet. Den skyldig blir som regel fremstilt som en sort mann som raner, skyter eller rett og slett er en mental gangster. Dermed har vi frykt inne i bildet. Dette avler rasisme, noe som igjen avler mer frykt. I tillegg til Ä reprodusere seg, sÞrger ogsÄ frykt for at flere amerikaner kjÞper vÄpen for Ä beskytte seg selv, til tross for at de fleste, statistisk sett, vil skade seg selv eller sin familie oftere enn en eventuell ugjerningsmann.

Jeg aner en litt ondsinnet syklus her.

LÞsningen er enkel, men komplisert: mer restrektive vÄpenlover og en generell holdningsendring i samfunnet.
Desverre er det slik at dagens holdninger til vÄpen i USA gjÞr det heller problematisk Ä innfÞre restrektive vÄpenlover - de har jo alle sin grunnlovsbeskyttede rett til Ä skyte seg selv i foten.

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InnleggSkrevet: Tor 08 Feb 2007, 20:38
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toth42

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Siden du nevner rasisme, benytter jeg sjansen til Ă„ digerere litt..

PÄ sider som youtube og break.com virker det som om slavetiden endte i gÄr. Man skulle tro at etter Ä ha levd side om side sÄpass lenge, at de hvite og svarte var mer tolerante overfor hverandre, enn vi er mot innvandrere f.eks..
Men nei. I kommentarene til halvparten av videoklippene velter det inn en haug med "niggers can't drive", "cracker ass motherfuckers call that fighting?", "fucking stupid blackass idiots" osv osv.. Jeg ble Êrlig talt litt overrasket.. Ikke over at det fortsatt er rasisme i USA, men at det er sÄ.. standard..
Vi har vÄrt her i landet og, men det er ikke sÄnn at det stÄr i annenhver gjestebok pÄ blink "JÊvla utlending, dra tilbake" eller "fuck you pottittryne"..

[/digresjon]

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InnleggSkrevet: Fre 09 Feb 2007, 09:26
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